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 Post subject: My Knuckle Mod
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 3:08 pm 
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Proven Drifter
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Location: Bartlesville, OK
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Knuckle Mod Convo by Brickhouse Products

So after reading the above convo between Iceman Steve and my brother Steve, I got inspired and thus ambitious. I have gone to a point of no return and I am currently developing knuckles for my 240sx. Currently, I have 45 plus degrees of swing and ackerman greatly reduced. I say "45 plus" because without wheel spacers or longer LCA and can't turn more. HAHA. This is a good problem to have though, IMO. I also know their is more angle to be had by adding another "screw-in style rack spacer" to the drivers side or I can return some ackerman angle to where the wheels no longer rub the tension rods. I will have to make two version I think, one with more ackerman angle for street/mid-level experience drivers/lower HP and one with "zero" ackerman angle for track/experienced drivers/high HP. I would like to have some testers in the future to get feed back and thus make them better...but only after I log some miles on them first.

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 Post subject: Re: My Knuckle Mod
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 4:23 pm 
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Proven Drifter
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Location: the BS MO
"like button"
I'd be into the low ack's. If I can ever get ahead of these gd house payments enough to get pbm coils, and these.
Cool to see somebody givin it a try at making these!


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 Post subject: Re: My Knuckle Mod
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 4:31 pm 
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Proven Drifter
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im gonna be buying some pbm pro knuckles for my new s13 build, but ill test a set of yours in an event next season if youd like.

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 Post subject: Re: My Knuckle Mod
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:42 pm 
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Proven Drifter
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Location: Independence
Miata version? 8)
these things lack angle.

But, some if these for s13, get even more angle.

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 Post subject: Re: My Knuckle Mod
PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 4:00 am 
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Proven Drifter
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Location: Okinawa, Japan / Bartlesville, OK
Excited to see these underway! Now I need to acquire a s-chassis so I can rock a set!

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 Post subject: Re: My Knuckle Mod
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 3:21 pm 
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Proven Drifter
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Location: spend-ependence
SWEET! no hurry and move to kc

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 Post subject: Re: My Knuckle Mod
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:58 am 
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Proven Drifter
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Location: Bartlesville, OK
Update - I have made jigs for the S14 Zero Ackerman (Zero's) Set. I have the S14 Factory Ackerman (Factory's) Set designed and currently making jigs. Why two different knuckle sets for the same chassis you might ask, easy. I have been reading a ton on this and have come to find there are two trains of though for knuckles: Those with and those without ackerman. Each has advantages/disadvanges: "Zero's" offer little drag during drift which translates to less driver feel. "Factory's" offer more driver feel, initial turn in which means more scrub in drift. So I want to try both at some point once I get another set of knuckles. Next up is FLCA lengthen and steering arm stops.

bauchrt wrote:
"like button"
I'd be into the low ack's. If I can ever get ahead of these gd house payments enough to get pbm coils, and these.
Cool to see somebody givin it a try at making these!


Ahh bills, I feel your pain. In due time I will get these sorted and get them available to people.

Rolando_JDM wrote:
im gonna be buying some pbm pro knuckles for my new s13 build, but ill test a set of yours in an event next season if youd like.


Baller...I would very much appreciate you trying them out and letting me know what you think.

AkaZero wrote:
Miata version? 8)
these things lack angle.

But, some if these for s13, get even more angle.


S13 angle is improved for sure. A Miata version would be cool. I would need to do some looking around at what others have done. They would be more of a beta set until all kinks were worked out.

ICEMAN wrote:
SWEET! no hurry and move to kc


I am hoping to get a test in as soon as the snow melts off *crossing fingers*. My wife just started her job search again crossing fingers.

All pictures were taken at the same time with the steering turned to the left.

This image shows the ackerman still in the Factory set up:
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Driver's side:
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Passenger's side:
Image

Driver's side, some over-centering is occurring but it looks cool...stoppers are next after legthening:
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 Post subject: Re: My Knuckle Mod
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:33 am 
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Proven Drifter
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Location: spend-ependence
very nice.. I my have to pick up a set....

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 Post subject: Re: My Knuckle Mod
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:04 am 
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Proven Drifter
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ICEMAN wrote:
very nice.. I my have to pick up a set....

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 Post subject: Re: My Knuckle Mod
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:58 pm 
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Proven Drifter
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after thinking a bit about why the steering should be any different for drifting, I think I've figured it out. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Since the wheels are at both a higher angle than regular steering and the opposite freakin direction, you need less ackerman because the wheels are aligned correctly for a tight, opposite direction turn. This would mean your outside wheel is pulling outside, trying to get you to exit your drift(creating scrub). Right?

Since your drift car is set up to drift, I propose you create a reverse-ackerman knuckle to create true ackerman angles during a slide. (turn radius and slide angle make perfect akerman and total opposite lock impossible at all speeds)

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 Post subject: Re: My Knuckle Mod
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:16 pm 
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Proven Drifter
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Location: Independence
I just drift.
More steering angle makes that easier.

I know I ran a tiny bit of toe in in the front, with just spacers and even with power steering it was quick to auto steer, and retained a god feel of the road.

I would love a set, but not sure what my future drifting will be in. 240 or miata.

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 Post subject: Re: My Knuckle Mod
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:12 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 4:04 am
Posts: 93
Location: Overland Park
taking on a lot of liability. you should limit it to people with cars they track only. Someone who daily's their 240 is driving to work. Lets say a weld splits/ they need to maneuver around something but having knuckles makes them lose control somehow, or maybe they don't have power steering and their wheels lock in one direction while driving down the road/ on the highway. All of these things could end someones life, just so that they could have more angle once a month over the summer when they go to HPT. I'm not doubting you by any means, don't get me wrong. But if something happens to one of them, and someone dies because of it, you're going to have to live with that for the rest of your life.

I too have plans for modifying my knuckles, but decided against doing anything other than helping people modify theirs. i don't want to be the reason someone meets their maker. haha.

BUT, on another note, you now have phat angle... and its awesome. +1

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 Post subject: Re: My Knuckle Mod
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:58 pm 
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Proven Drifter
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Location: Independence
You could say the same about any mod.

That's why everything says "for off road use only"
Coilovers even say that. I broke a front coil at the track, that could have been daily bad.

As long as the weld is solid, it should be as strong as the rest of yhe knucle, if not stronger.
You could also add plates to make it way stronger than oem.

but I would trust these knuckles more than ebay control arms and hundreds of people run those with no problems.
And he makes cages, so I think he knows some about protecting life.

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 Post subject: Re: My Knuckle Mod
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:07 pm 
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Proven Drifter
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Yeah I'd trust Gregs welds, it's just like sending knuckles to pbm and having them weld them.

Anyways, any updates?

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Click here to read the build of The Profound Motorsports S14! - 8----> http://forums.kcdrift.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7389


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 Post subject: Re: My Knuckle Mod
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:11 pm 
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Proven Drifter
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Location: Independence
My car is on stands if you need a test subject for the low power crowd. :D

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 Post subject: Re: My Knuckle Mod
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:54 am 
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Proven Drifter
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do a super angle kit for my cressida

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 Post subject: Re: My Knuckle Mod
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:05 pm 
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Proven Drifter
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Location: omaha ne
rich at XM sells them for $250 for cressidas

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 Post subject: Re: My Knuckle Mod
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 6:39 pm 
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Proven Drifter
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Location: Bartlesville, OK
sittin_sideways wrote:
taking on a lot of liability. you should limit it to people with cars they track only. Someone who daily's their 240 is driving to work. Lets say a weld splits/ they need to maneuver around something but having knuckles makes them lose control somehow, or maybe they don't have power steering and their wheels lock in one direction while driving down the road/ on the highway. All of these things could end someones life, just so that they could have more angle once a month over the summer when they go to HPT. I'm not doubting you by any means, don't get me wrong. But if something happens to one of them, and someone dies because of it, you're going to have to live with that for the rest of your life.

I too have plans for modifying my knuckles, but decided against doing anything other than helping people modify theirs. i don't want to be the reason someone meets their maker. haha.

BUT, on another note, you now have phat angle... and its awesome. +1



I was thinking I would have a release of liability drawn up and have every purchaser sign it stating that these are offroad use only and any injury or death is the responsibility of the purchaser. Part Shop Max did do or still does a release of liability for their knuckles. But this is really just a formality as I am sure they will last for many moon unscathed. Also planned on running these myself for a good while before releasing anything to anyone.

As for an update: I have been working on readying my house for sale as I will be moving south, but south to Coffeyville, ks area. So I will be around but much in the same capacity as now. However my full time job after relocation and settling will be Brickhouse and so I am sure you guys will see more of me at event and see more updates coming from products for the company. And Sponsorship of the KC events in the near future!

As for the knuckles they are in the same place I left them. I will be completing them when the house put on the market. Then I will proceed to drive them as much as possible and really beat on them- pot holes, speed bumps, drifts, you name it. I say end of them month they are back on car.

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 Post subject: Re: My Knuckle Mod
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:54 pm 
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Proven Drifter
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Location: Omaha, NE
Ew, why are you moving down to coffeyville? There are only things in that town are, the railroad, the foundry, the refinery and a walmart.

--Korea

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 Post subject: Re: My Knuckle Mod
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 2:45 pm 
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Proven Drifter
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Location: spend-ependence
Coffeyville isnt any closer to kansas city! what are you thinking???

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 Post subject: Re: My Knuckle Mod
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 8:00 pm 
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Proven Drifter
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Location: Independence
Maybe it has some large sweeping roads with no people around? :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: My Knuckle Mod
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 10:38 pm 
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Proven Drifter
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Location: Omaha, NE
AkaZero wrote:
Maybe it has some large sweeping roads with no people around? :lol:


Not sweeping but there are still huge amounts of condemned buildings that have never been torn down after the great flood. That could be kinda fun I guess.

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 Post subject: Re: My Knuckle Mod
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 11:14 pm 
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Proven Drifter
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No cops + any street can be fun. :lol:
But coffeyville is still forever away.

Kansas is hella boring, but I guess that means no distractions.

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 Post subject: Re: My Knuckle Mod
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 1:08 am 
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Proven Drifter
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any interested in doing this for my e46 gregg? pretty much the same as the s chassis knuckle mods you did

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 Post subject: Re: My Knuckle Mod
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:00 pm 
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Proven Drifter
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BIGjake wrote:
any interested in doing this for my e46 gregg? pretty much the same as the s chassis knuckle mods you did


I wont have time until after the move, but after that I would be more that happy to do so. Late summer is when I would expect to start having time.

Yes Coffeyville was not our first choice, but you go where the money is or at least that is what everyone tells me...and it seems to be holding true. The nice thing I have noticed about moving down that way (prolly live in Bartlesville, OK) is that I can hit the KCdrift events and the OKC events as you are both equidistant for the most part. Either way this thread is not about me moving but rather KNUCKLES!!

I got the knucks baked, welded, cooled, and powdered in a Saturday. They turned out lovely...er...or as lovely as my test set are gonna get. I didnt get carried away finish welding as it seemed like extra work, nor did I grind them down much and make them all that pretty. I drove them around the block, but I wont get the car registered until May 1st. Why you might be asking? Nebraska has a thing where if you car sits for a full year you dont have to pay registration for the previous year. So versus me shelling out 90 dollars now and another 90 in another month, I opted to wait. Oh and my drive around the block was scary fast, I really forgot how fast that car was in year.

In designing these I read for a long time(a year or so) and finally settled with keeping factory as possible ackerman but just shortening the arm versus swinging it out and get more parallel steering. Well this has its own consequences, but one I am working on remedying. Right now the rack is over centering before I can get full angle out of the knucks so inturn I have actually lost some swing (prolly 5-10 degrees). I am either going to relocate my rack (cheapest but most time consuming) or create or buy some offset rack spacers (driftworks are hella expensive but not time consuming, creating my own is difficult to find parts but i recently got an idea)....oooo, or I could also prolly get Ikea Formula inner tie rods.

Anyway I have a couple shitty cell picture to post (sorry).

Knucks in Purple Red Powder Coat
Image

My fresh new bumpstops. Wanted to extend lower arms but decided against it for now.
Image

I welded on a nut to get more thread engagement. Then Krinkle Coat Black.
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